Comments on: Is the Marine Corps manipulating MV-22 Safety Records? http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/ The Naval Institute’s taken its independent forum to a new level - with you in the middle of it. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:43:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Defense Springboard http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/comment-page-1/#comment-184049 Defense Springboard Sat, 02 Jan 2010 03:32:33 +0000 http://blog.usni.org/?p=5533#comment-184049 Well, one might ask what, exactly, is "aggressive sparing?" There might have been fatigue issues or something less immediate that caused the retirement of those three MV-22s. We don't know. Sure, it'd be nice to know what happened to those MV-22s that got retired, but that's not going to happen. I do think it rather odd when a simple inventory of aircraft becomes a tough exercise in bureaucratic arm-twisting... Well, one might ask what, exactly, is “aggressive sparing?”

There might have been fatigue issues or something less immediate that caused the retirement of those three MV-22s. We don’t know. Sure, it’d be nice to know what happened to those MV-22s that got retired, but that’s not going to happen.

I do think it rather odd when a simple inventory of aircraft becomes a tough exercise in bureaucratic arm-twisting…

]]> By: Robert Davis http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/comment-page-1/#comment-184033 Robert Davis Sat, 02 Jan 2010 02:30:49 +0000 http://blog.usni.org/?p=5533#comment-184033 When the Corps decides to scrap a new MV-22 that cost $100 million because it can't be fixed, doesn't that mean it incurred over $1 million in damage. If so, where is the Class A mishap report and JAG? What was the problem? How can it be prevented? No one knows because laws weren't followed. I am not aware of any production F-22s that were scrapped. When the Corps decides to scrap a new MV-22 that cost $100 million because it can’t be fixed, doesn’t that mean it incurred over $1 million in damage. If so, where is the Class A mishap report and JAG? What was the problem? How can it be prevented? No one knows because laws weren’t followed. I am not aware of any production F-22s that were scrapped.

]]> By: Defense Springboard http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/comment-page-1/#comment-183986 Defense Springboard Fri, 01 Jan 2010 23:25:54 +0000 http://blog.usni.org/?p=5533#comment-183986 Those birds that got retired are rather early production models--not much better than testers. It'll be more interesting to see how the block B's stand up to wear and tear over time... We'll see. Those birds that got retired are rather early production models–not much better than testers.

It’ll be more interesting to see how the block B’s stand up to wear and tear over time… We’ll see.

]]> By: Robert Davis http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/comment-page-1/#comment-183932 Robert Davis Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:31:56 +0000 http://blog.usni.org/?p=5533#comment-183932 Tom's comment was interesting. I like detective work, so I searched the net for a while and found this link http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IAX/is_5_87/ai_n15370510/pg_13/ which lists three MV-22s scrapped in 2004, and this link http://www.targetlock.org.uk/osprey/production.html which shows those BuNos were production aircraft, not FSD or EMD "test" aircraft. Perhaps someone at HQMC will explain this to us, but probably not Tom’s comment was interesting. I like detective work, so I searched the net for a while and found this link

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IAX/is_5_87/ai_n15370510/pg_13/

which lists three MV-22s scrapped in 2004, and this link

http://www.targetlock.org.uk/osprey/production.html

which shows those BuNos were production aircraft, not FSD or EMD “test” aircraft. Perhaps someone at HQMC will explain this to us, but probably not

]]> By: Ned Turner http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/comment-page-1/#comment-183747 Ned Turner Fri, 01 Jan 2010 01:28:48 +0000 http://blog.usni.org/?p=5533#comment-183747 The Osprey is a gold-plated piece of equipment kept alive by politicians and bureaucrats. What's needed in the dust and grime of Iraq and Afghanistan is a machine cheap and simple to maintain--something the Russians are good at designing. Every illiterate, semi-starved Taliban goon must be dreaming of downing a high-dollar Osprey with his worn out AK-47---that must be worth 72 virgins in the afterlife. The Osprey is a gold-plated piece of equipment kept alive by politicians and bureaucrats. What’s needed in the dust and grime of Iraq and Afghanistan is a machine cheap and simple to maintain–something the Russians are good at designing. Every illiterate, semi-starved Taliban goon must be dreaming of downing a high-dollar Osprey with his worn out AK-47—that must be worth 72 virgins in the afterlife.

]]> By: Tom http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/comment-page-1/#comment-183719 Tom Thu, 31 Dec 2009 22:51:46 +0000 http://blog.usni.org/?p=5533#comment-183719 It is far worse than this. The Corps determined that at least a dozen fairly new MV-22s were damaged beyond repair, and scrapped them (struck off charge) and never reported any mishap incident. This is why they basically refused to provide the GAO and Congress with an inventory list. These fragile things have service life of only six years. It is far worse than this. The Corps determined that at least a dozen fairly new MV-22s were damaged beyond repair, and scrapped them (struck off charge) and never reported any mishap incident. This is why they basically refused to provide the GAO and Congress with an inventory list. These fragile things have service life of only six years.

]]> By: It’s time to stop the Marines from buying aircraft. « Bring the heat, Bring the Stupid http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/comment-page-1/#comment-183578 It’s time to stop the Marines from buying aircraft. « Bring the heat, Bring the Stupid Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:39:36 +0000 http://blog.usni.org/?p=5533#comment-183578 [...] safer than the tired old CH-46s it replaces. But that doesn’t mean the program makes sense.  And it appears that the Marines may be up to some shennanigans in trying to hide its true safety rec.... Any time you have to compromise your integrity for a procurement program, things are not [...] [...] safer than the tired old CH-46s it replaces. But that doesn’t mean the program makes sense.  And it appears that the Marines may be up to some shennanigans in trying to hide its true safety rec…. Any time you have to compromise your integrity for a procurement program, things are not [...]

]]> By: Defense Springboard http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/comment-page-1/#comment-182405 Defense Springboard Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:54:41 +0000 http://blog.usni.org/?p=5533#comment-182405 It's about integrity. If we had a standard cutoff for Mishaps, why did we not apply them? Or is the Safety Center good only for making fun little posters and compiling data about servicemember motorcycle crashes? Honesty and integrity used to count for something. Weren't they important and desired qualifications for leadership? It’s about integrity. If we had a standard cutoff for Mishaps, why did we not apply them?

Or is the Safety Center good only for making fun little posters and compiling data about servicemember motorcycle crashes?

Honesty and integrity used to count for something. Weren’t they important and desired qualifications for leadership?

]]> By: Herbal http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/comment-page-1/#comment-182404 Herbal Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:23:05 +0000 http://blog.usni.org/?p=5533#comment-182404 The new mishap threshold for mishap severity: http://safetycenter.navy.mil/messages/alsafe/files/2009/ALSAFE09-056.txt It references a USD AT&L memo that apparently made the change DoD-wide. The new mishap threshold for mishap severity:

http://safetycenter.navy.mil/messages/alsafe/files/2009/ALSAFE09-056.txt

It references a USD AT&L memo that apparently made the change DoD-wide.

]]> By: Cap'n Bill http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/25/is-the-marine-corps-manipulating-mv-22-safety-records/comment-page-1/#comment-182402 Cap'n Bill Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:15:16 +0000 http://blog.usni.org/?p=5533#comment-182402 Earlier this year there were televised hearings of Congress dealing with the MV-22. Anyone who paid attention to the USMC General who was the focus of MV-22 questioning would walk away with a suspicious mind. Earlier this year there were televised hearings of Congress dealing with the MV-22. Anyone who paid attention to the USMC General who was the focus of MV-22 questioning would walk away with a suspicious mind.

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