Herding Cats Off the Israeli Coast

2nd

Herding Cats Off the Israeli Coast

June 2010

We typically design physical operations first, then craft supporting information operations to explain our actions. This is the reverse of al-Qaida’s approach. For all our professionalism, compared to the enemy’s, our public information is an afterthought. In military terms, for al-Qaida the ‘main effort’ is information; for us, information is a ‘supporting effort.

David Kilcullen, Countering the Terrorist Mentality, New Paradigms for 21st Century Conflict

In the late 1990s with the advent of massive multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGS), one of the early challenges that game developers and game masters faced was to generate expected behavior patterns from the mass of players that were flocking to these early games at the time. Large communities playing in these graphics based environments was a new phenomenon that many programmers did not have experience in dealing with, and it was initially difficult for the programmers to associate the impact their content would have on the larger gaming community. Sometime in 1999-2000 time frame, the process of programmers developing content to create expected behavior patterns by players within these massive online gaming communities was affectionately termed “Herding Cats.”

Manipulation of mass media for political influence is both art and science, and represents a psychological warfare capability that non-state actors and political non-government organizations continue to demonstrate remarkable skill and mastery. On May 28th, before the intercept of the Gaza flotilla by Israeli Defense Forces, the Christian Science Monitor ran a story with the headline Why Israel expects to lose the PR war. In the article, expectations of defeat are expressed before the intercept of the flotilla even began.

“We know one thing for sure, in the media we are going to lose the war anyhow,” says Shlomo Dror, a spokesman for Israel’s Defense Ministry. “It doesn’t matter what we do, if we let them into Gaza, they will speak against Israel. If we stop them it will also be a bad picture.”

What I find remarkable is the fatality of the operation expressed in the article. The expectation established in the information space was one of defeat – before the operation even began. If you read the article in full, you will note how the NGO narrative had already been established before the incident, indeed the conclusion in the article is how “The protesters could keep the story prominent in the international media if they fight deportation.” Noteworthy, the protesters are doing exactly that today by withholding their identities.

Whether one believes Israel has a chance to win the information war or not is almost irrelevant, the question I have is why Israel didn’t even try to compete in the information war? The videos that show the actions by the Gaza Flotilla are certainly powerful, but those videos arrived after the NGO had already established the narrative, and the release of the videos was hardly part of a coordinated effort. Indeed, understanding that the battlefield is the information space should give Israel the advantage in developing their operation – but there is little evidence that supports this is evident?

Consider for a moment – the operation that was executed involved fast roping Israels premier anti-terrorism commando unit, armed with paint guns, directly into an angry mob at night that had repeatedly expressed their intention to either run the blockade or generate a confrontation for information purposes – and the intelligence assessment used to develop this operation expected little resistance? There was failure in the tactics for boarding, failure in choosing the equipment used by the boarding party, and a massive failure in intelligence. It is hard to expect anything but failure in the information war as well – and sure enough…fail.

If you believe the Gaza Flotilla is an information operation intended to herd the cats of mass media into a narrative – which is what I believe is the ultimate intention of the NGO effort here – then we can presume to already know the narrative of the second flotilla. The NGO desires a clash on June 8th. Why? Because by creating a clash on June 8th the mass media can be expected to include a reminder of the anniversary of the USS Liberty incident 43 years ago as part of the narrative. We can expect the NGO to fortify the ship in ways that prevent the use of cameras from other ships or aircraft. Why? Because cameras from helicopters and Israeli ships represent a greater threat than the actual IDF commandos do – if you believe the battlefield is the information space. The ship will be more fortified internally? Why? Because the open space of the open deck favors the Israelis, but the small compartments of the ship favor the defenders in creating opportunities to control camera angles and perception of events to onlookers thousands of miles away.

The battlefield off the coast of Israel is in the information space, not the Mediterranean Sea. The weapons that matter most to the Free Gaza Movement are cameras, not firearms or paint guns. Political protests at sea can be defined in their basic form as a political strategy for maritime information war operations – thus to quote Sun Tzu, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy’s strategy. Instead, Israel blundered with every step right into the enemy’s strategy.

Posted by galrahn in Uncategorized

You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

Byron

You just tripped the irrelavancy alarms. /ignore Lou.
UltimaRatioReg

Just curious, is that the same UN that put Iran on the Womens’ Rights Commission?
http://www.coatneyhistory.com Lou Coatney

You ask for evidence, I provide it, and now you declare the topic irrelevant, Bryon? I shall be happy to ignore your future requests for evidence.

Feel free to research the other sources, URR, if the UN isn’t good enough for you.
UltimaRatioReg

The UN hasn’t been good enough for anyone except the Third World anti-Western, anti-US troublemakers who want to cloak their hatred and brutality in a convenient veil of legitimacy. But I digress.
SwitchBlade

I stand corrected on the stopping the ship(s) in International Waters. In a declared blockade, as this is, it is permissible to question, and conduct a board and search in International waters. WRT Turkish escorts of more ships – it would be Turkey initiation hostilities by running a declared blockade.

WRT humanitarian aid, starving residents on the Gaza Strip etc., I throw the BS flag. The residents aren’t starving. The access points from Israel and Egypt are both use for legitimate transfer of goods into Gaza. The tunnels (of which little has been written here) are mostly used for transfer of luxury goods as well as illegal weapons. That would be those rockets that are shot from the Gaza strip into Israel.

Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza. By being duly elected, the people of Gaza have elected a government that is a terrorist organization, has avowed the destruction of Israel and refuses to even recognize Israel. Therefore, Israel is in a perpetual state of hostilities with the government of Gaza and has the right to “acts of war” such as the blockade.

Talk of negotiations is always through a third party and this simply facilitates the terrorist. The world should take a different tack in dealing with the Palestinians and, frankly, I think the Obama Administration’s positions, more aligned with Europe, is a step backwards. Things will get worse before they get better.

Sacto43 – you haven’t made a case.
http://www.coatneyhistory.com Lou Coatney

Another falsehood which should be replied to:

“I do know that Western Civilization is fighting an ideological war that we continue to evade. The Islamic Totalitarians recognize this fact and exploit it every time. If Western Civilization is going to win this war than it us time to recognize that this is Either-Or time.”

Oh, you mean ISLAMOFASCISM?

It is a figment of neocon propaganda. Granted, Islam is anti-democratic and totalitarian, but the Muslims are more dangerous to each other than to the rest of us, if left to themselves – although non-Muslims in their countries are certainly at risk.

(And it should be noted that in Saddam Hussein’s secular, Baathist regime, there was more religious freedom than there is now. Virtually all Christians have had to flee, since our “liberation” of Iraq.)

The West has done 2 very stupid things:

1. It has allowed large numbers of Muslims to immigrate into it, causing major and smoldering social and political problems. I am told that in Scandinavian countries, many schoolgirls in areas of immigrant population now have to dye their hair black, to avoid intense sexual harassment or worse. 1/7th of Sweden’s population is now immigrant, most Muslim. Jews (for example) have had to flee Malmo, because Muslims there are so numerous and hostile. Violent sex crime had become virtually nonexistent in Sweden, until immigrants from cultures which hold Scandinavians’ liberal lifestyle in contempt resumed attacks far worse than before.

Most of the immigrants only want a better life for themselves and their families, but extremist, criminal elements (quite like those now controlling Israel) among them are undeterred by Scandinavia’s diffident judicial system. (About 5 years ago, 4 or 5 Kosovo Albanians abducted, beat, and gang-raped a pretty young Norwegian girl for days and got only 2 years in prison, which they laughed off. Since Clinton & Blair’s war crime Kosovo war, the Albanian mafiya has spread out all over Europe, and there are 2 of their gangs running drugs and prostitution just in little Trondheim, Norway. And, unwilling to classify them as terrorists as they should be, impotent Norwegian authorities can’t control them.)

Readers note that by contrast when I lay out facts like this about Israel’s extremist, criminal elements, I get smeared “anti-Semitic.”

2. The West – Cheney&Bush and Blair and their neocon/Israeli pals – have managed to stir the Muslims up and unite them like we haven’t seen for centuries. Anti-Communist Islamic states like Iran are allying even with still-Maoist China which is edging toward a major confrontation with us, as it is.

We had Turkey liberalizing and democratizing (slowly), until we let the neocons drag us directly into the Mideast wars – Asian land wars our strategists have long warned us to AVOID – and Turkey is now radicalized in reaction.

We should instead be de-escalating in the Mideast, and if Likud Israel tries to sabotage that, we should cut it loose.

By the way, I strongly support there being a Jewish Home Land – unless it becomes such a threat to us – as well as a straightening out of Israel’s borders. For example, I think Gaza should be evacuated and Gazans should be relocated … maybe in the Sinai in a generously compensated Egypt? … etc. But Israel’s attack on those ships and boats in international waters was intolerable, and it should be punished.

If Johnson had gotten truth and justice in the case of the USS Liberty – instead of pandering to the Israel lobby – Israel might have been burned badly enough that it wouldn’t have dared to try such crimes again. If you read Ennes’s book, the crew was quarantined after the attack, and 2 crewmen who objected to the coverup were nearly mentally exterminated with electroshock, until the base commander stopped that, presumably at the cost of his career.

And there were Israeli commandos in helicopters about to board the Liberty too … to do what, do you suppose? … until its message got out that it was being attacked by *Israelis*.
Lee Wetherhorn

Lou
you’ve raised a couple of points about the Liberty that should have been put to rest years ago.
The attack was just blue on blue, and the most important “commando” on that helicopter was CDR Ernie Castle, the US Naval Attache in Tel Aviv whom the Israelis took out to the ship at their initiative.
You should also know that I spent some time at sea with both CDR Moshe Oren and then LT Ehud (Udie) Erel. The former was the CO of the torpedo boats and Udie Erel was one of his junior officers.
Continuing the Liberty story as a vendetta, in my opinion, does little to honor the victims, who lost their lives in the service of our country. It is also, as has been pointed out, irrelevant to the incident under discussion.
In my earlier post I examined the legal case for the Israelis. My examination shows that the IDF seems to have rather meticulously observed all the requirements, including admirable restraint, while enforcing a legal blockade against a declared provocation that included attacks upon them with lethal weapons.
First impressions came from the Pro-Palestinian groups via Turkish TV. For many, those impressions have prevented a more objective assessment as further evidence has been displayed. I hope you are not one of them.
http://www.coatneyhistory.com Lou Coatney

It’s not a vendetta, Lee, and according to Ennes and other Liberty crew – who were closer to the case than you – it wasn’t just blue on blue. If the truth doesn’t come out, the Israelis are going to continue to do things like this, and suspicions about possible Israeli involvement in 9/11 underscore that.

Your friends Oren and Edel were just following orders. It was the people who were the source of the orders who should have been punished and who still should be exposed and censured. (Dyan’s later tour of Viet Nam was a farce.)

We’ll see what others have to say about the legalities, too, but the political and human context is no less important, and the Israelis charged right into an explosive situation “regardless” – quite like we equally disastrously jumped into Iraq – and fully deserve all the condemnation they’re getting.
http://www.coatneyhistory.com Lou Coatney

And here we go again: “New aid ship heads to Gaza, Israel vows to stop it.”

Nothing about an escorting Turkish warship, something about a 20 mile exclusion zone … which seems reasonable … and we’ll see if Israeli sea confrontation&boarding techniques have improved.

But the Israeli officials who authorized the previous foulup – attack – should be held accountable, especially if it was Netanyahu who ordered it.
Rick Wilmes

“It is a figment of neocon propaganda. Granted, Islam is anti-democratic and totalitarian, but the Muslims are more dangerous to each other than to the rest of us, if left to themselves – although non-Muslims in their countries are certainly at risk.”

This is what I mean by Islamic totalitarianism, and it is not a myth.

“We demand an Islamic state, and not some form of Islamisation of society. We want the state to be Islamic, with Islamic leaders who have the courage and will to implement the Islamic law in total. . . .
We want an Islamic state where Islamic law is not just in the books but enforced, and enforced with determination. There is no space and no room for democratic consultation. The Islamic law is set and fixed, so why discuss it? Just implement it!
Right now we are drafting our own constitutional amendments for Indonesia, the framework for an Indonesian Islamic state where Islamic laws are enforced. Indonesians must understand that there is no Islamic state without the enforcement of Islamic laws.8

This is Islamic Totalitarianism—State Islam—rule by Islamic Law—and it is on the rise. While this cleric plots an Islamic State, people from countries where children are taught that Jews are born of pigs and monkeys, and that Israel is “occupied territory” and fair game for attack, rail against so-called anti-Muslim “prejudice.” Inside America, leaders of hostile countries give speeches to build “bridges of understanding” while building nuclear bombs overseas.9 Adherents of Islam claim to be victims of persecution, assertions they make on national television, from pulpits, and in tenured university positions.”

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-winter/no-substitute-for-victory.asp
http://www.coatneyhistory.com Lou Coatney

This is informative:

“Former Mossad agent ridicules Gaza ship raid”

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/06/former_mossad_agent_ridicules.html

***

Who would have thought Turks would fight. :eyeroll:

And one of them was American-born.
Warrant Diver

Sacto

“armed with what?” knives, steel bars, chairs, chains…and they took Israeli pistols and used them. Is that not armed enough for you? Who do you think wins in a battle between a paint ball gun and fifteen steel bars?

You claim to want facts and ignore every fact presented as you spew forth your terrorist supporting nonsense. Tell me that throwing a fully battle kitted commando overboard isn’t an attempt to kill him.

“It does not warrant killing! Post anything to prove your point. Any precedent.”
Are you serious? You really are blind to the facts. They weren’t killed for blockade running, they were killed for attacking the Israelis! The video is clear that the Israelis boarding the Maramara were attacked BEFORE THEY SET FOOT ON THE DECK!!

Now as to your personal attacks on me: I don’t need glasses and I’m pretty proficient with weapons handling, so no one around me is in danger. If you can’t control yourself, don’t post. I will allow myself one response to your personal insults, and that is that I consider you one of Hamas’ useful idiots. You carry their flag very well.
UltimaRatioReg

Islamofascism is a figment of Neo-Con propaganda?

I suppose Hitler’s National Socialism was something Churchill made up.

More religious freedom under Saddam? If you consider everyone being brutally oppressed, imprisoned, and executed equally to be “religious freedom”.

Cheney, Bush, and Blair are to blame for Islamic Jihadist terrorism? Wow. Here I was thinking that the Islamic hostility to the west goes back many centuries, and that Munich, Achille Lauro, the Berlin Disco, first WTC bombing (and the declarations of the Islamofascists) all preceded those men by a number of years.

So Lou, why don’t you fly to Turkey, book passage on one of the blockade runners, and swing a lead pipe at the first Israeli soldier you see? That way, when he puts two in your hat, just before you die, you can blame Bush and Chaney and the “Zionists” for it.
Sacto43

SwitchBlade,

The case you make is valid for nation states. The Gaza strip is not a nation. If the Israels want to enforce a blockade then they have to provide the civilian populations humanitarian needs under the Forth Geneva Convention and direction of the Security Council. Israel is not doing this. Therefore, the right for Israel to enforce a humanitarian blockade is dubious at best. Efforts by world leaders, including many jews and israelis, have tried to call attention to the counter-productive blockade in all legal forums. Therefore, reasonable people can be expected to want to help end what they perceive to be an injustice. It can then be assumed (and probably easily confirmed via Mossad) that this flotilla-media stunt-cargo ship is not a Hamas death squad.

When an operation this inept begins then the starting party here deserves at the very least a negligence charge. Your arguments, which I do consider good and valid, argue for the sinking of the Lusintania. I no not think it moral to kill non-hostile civilians. If the turkish ship had been safely boarded from the rear in Israeli waters they incident would not have played out like it did. Instead they tried a terrifying helo assault in international waters. That was their fail.

All other arguments here depend on the assumption that this ship was hostile. Therefore, deadly force was authorized from the beginning. The easiest of research shows that this ship was Turkish and in international waters. You may disagree about the politics of opinion of those crewing the ships but it is clear it was not a hostile vessel acting with bad intent against the safety of Israeli civilians.

URR,
If there was no UN there would be no state of Israel. Or does your history book only start in 1949? You are nothing but an ad hominem generator.

Warent,
“Tell me that throwing a fully battle kitted commando overboard isn’t an attempt to kill him.”
By people who had a reasonable suspicion that they were going to attacked first by armed soldiers. Look bud, its not my fault that the IDF use questionable tactics. They need to be held accountable.

“you spew forth your terrorist supporting nonsense”
“I consider you one of Hamas’ useful idiots. You carry their flag very well.”

You calling me a Hamas supporter shows your weakness. You cannot find anything else to use except “You luv teh teerrorist”. The fact that (again) you cannot tell a Hamas supporter from everyone else makes me hope that you keep you pistol holstered.
UltimaRatioReg

Sacto,

What really is the case is that if there were no US there would be no UN, and therefor Israel.

Other history books here seem to start on Jan 20th, 2001.

You also might do well to review your Latin before using it incorrectly.
Sacto43

That history book you are reading is only a chapter.

Chapter 43 titled “Bad Intelligence”.

The era of preemptive strikes against actors who pose no harm to our citizens. Thanks for making my point for me.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181

From here on out if I call you ignorant its not an ad hominem, its an adjective.
Rick Wilmes

It looks like at least 50 people on the ship may have jihad connections, were not carrying passports but $1000 in cash.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177169
UltimaRatioReg

“From here on out if I call you ignorant its not an ad hominem, its an adjective.”

From here on out if you call me ignorant, it simply means that you think “ad hominem” means someone disagrees with you.

Nobody can make your point for you. It seems least of all, you.
Warrant Diver

Sucto43

are you a Hamas supporter? I didn’t call you one, I said you were a useful idiot for Hamas. If you are guilty about supporting Hamas that is your own conscience talking, not me.

And I’ve used plenty other than “you love the terrorist”…it just appears that is the phrase that fits you the most, and the one you work so hard to disprove. Until you open your mouth and prove it all over again.
http://www.coatneyhistory.com Lou Coatney

“The Flotilla Raid Was Not “Bungled.” The IDF Detailed Its Violent Strategy In Advance,” by Max Blumenthal.

http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/the-flotilla-raid-was-not-bungled-the-idf-detailed-its-violent-strategy-in-advance/

So the deadly force insanity was intentional and from the highest level of the current Israeli government.

We do not need Israel, under its current leadership it is a dangerous liability, and it is no “ally.” We should cut it loose.
UltimaRatioReg

“We should cut it loose.”

And see it destroyed by its Arab neighbors with massive loss of life and wiping out of a culture?

You must be in the running for the Louis Farrakhan award at the annual Mosley Society banquet. The other finalist might be Sacto.
http://www.coatneyhistory.com Lou Coatney

The Blumenthal article is damning, URR, destroying any last vestige of defensibility for the Israeli attack.

Like the Taliban destroying the Great Buddhas, the neocons certainly have destroyed culture (in Iraq) themselves:

“Cultural Cleansing in Iraq: Why Museums Were Looted, Libraries Burned and Academics Murdered, 1 April 2010 – Battle to destroy hearts and minds – The dismantling of Iraqi intellectual life may have been a deliberate strategy, Roger Matthews learns”

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=411036&c=2

Albanians’ destruction of centuries-old Orthodox churches and other sites in Kosovo is another example of this, and it meets the cultural definition of genocide.

Likud Israel is going insane and is SELF-destructing … not unlike “Rev.” Jim Jones’ People’s Temple in Guyana … and if we don’t cut it loose, it will drag us down to OUR destruction too.
UltimaRatioReg

One might suggest being a bit more selective in filtering propaganda, Lou. You might want to talk with some folks who were there regarding Iraq, and the effort that went into saving their cultural heritage. Start with my friend Col Matt Bogdanos. He was there, it was his mission, he wrote a book on it. Might be somewhat more informed and less slanted than the London Times.

US forces risked life and limb, and some paid with those items, to protect Iraqi civilians and their culture. So you can probably save the “America’s fault” crap for someone who doesn’t know better.

You also might have a very different view if you had to pick your mail up at a Tel Aviv post office, and your kids dodged rockets on their way to school.
http://www.coatneyhistory.com Lou Coatney

Describing The Times as “slanted” instead only defines (and discredits) yourself to be that, URR – QED.
Rick Wilmes

@URR

it looks like you have become a target of the BlackArrows anti-neocon rant.

See the comments in this link.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/christopherhowse/3645601/fears_of_antisemitic_backlash/
UltimaRatioReg

Right. Hope you find room on your shelf for that Farrakhan award.
Rick Wilmes

I wonder how the world would have reacted if the fifty “activists” without passports had tried to board airplanes while refusing to identify themselves?
http://www.coatneyhistory.com Lou Coatney

Lee Wetherhorn, there seems to be a discrepancy in helicopter flights. In his co-authored summary of the attack on the USS Liberty, Ernie Castle says he was helicoptered out to the Liberty by the Israelis “a few hours” after the attack.

http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/liberty-intelligence.pdf

But in their timeline, the Liberty crew describes Israeli attack helicopters (plural) loaded with heavily armed troops arriving just as they got out word that they were being attacked by Israelis and the torpedoboats broke off their attack.

http://www.gtr5.com/summary_of_events.htm

So it appears Ernie’s flight was separate and much later, and your description for us was (by omission) misleading.

It is incredible that the torpedoboats fired FIVE torpedoes at such a large, slow noncombat ship like Liberty and only one hit. McGonagle must have been one … heck … of a captain.
UltimaRatioReg

@Rick,

It appears I am, yes. Though I am not a neo-anything.
Sacto43

Furkan Dogan

Five gunshot wounds: nose, back, back of head, left leg, left ankle

American citizen shot in the back of the head. Go ahead defend this. Maybe there should be as much concern for American lives from those sworn to protect them than those of Israeli commandos.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/gaza-flotilla-attack-autopsy-results

More evidence is coming in that the first causality hit the deck before the chopper even landed.

I made it a point in my very first post that this botched raid was more indicative to the lack ethics of the IDF. This New War is defined by projecting the higher moral ground in the eyes of the new media. The reason why this failed on a tactical level because the strategic objective of collective punishment is indefensible. The world now see this clearly. The fact that Israel still will not release the video from the reporters own cameras is indicative of a cover-up. There is no legal reason to take this evidence away from civilian reporters in international waters. Can anyone prove this wrong? Can any of you prove anything I have said wrong? Or will it be more of the usual “terrorist supporter” comebacks?

If any American, military or civilian, assisted in this, or future, raids of this type or aids in its cover up I will help to pull your butts in court here or the Hague myself. This action is not representative of American values or law. And if one does decide to aid the IDF in its collective punishment of civilians at least do me the favor of pulling your flag patch of your shoulder. Do not stain my flag or my country with your illegality.

URR:

You are special. You prove that you are above the ad hominem charge by spewing out more.

“You must be in the running for the Louis Farrakhan award at the annual Mosley Society banquet. The other finalist might be Sacto.”

“Right. Hope you find room on your shelf for that Farrakhan award.”
UltimaRatioReg

I believe “ad hominem” is defined as using an irrelevant or unrelated personal characteristic as a means to attack the legitimacy of an opinion or viewpoint.

I don’t believe it covers disagreeing with an espoused philosophy or point of view, nor highlighting that disagreement in discussion on the same or related topics.

But that’s just me. Mister Vegas.
SwitchBlade

“Sacto43 Says:
SwitchBlade,
The case you make is valid for nation states. The Gaza strip is not a nation.”

There is a dictionary definition of a Nation. Gaza mostly fits it. The legal definitions differ – but Gaza fits most. You’re trying to make a distinction without a difference.

“If the Israels want to enforce a blockade then they have to provide the civilian populations humanitarian needs under the Forth Geneva Convention and direction of the Security Council. Israel is not doing this. Therefore, the right for Israel to enforce a humanitarian blockade is dubious at best.”

Israel has several boarder crossing points into and out of Gaza, through which the majority (if not all – I don’t believe anything except people were allowed through Egypt’s crossing points until this week) of LEGAL goods passed. As I stated previously, there are no starving children or anyone else in Gaza. And since there aren’t and Israel and Egypt have the only crossing points, your statements that humanitarian aid isn’t getting through are obviously false. Israel requires goods going into Gaza be inspected for contriband – you know; arms, ammo, rockets that can be fired into Israel, etc.

“It can then be assumed (and probably easily confirmed via Mossad) that this flotilla-media stunt-cargo ship is not a Hamas death squad.”

The after the incident evidence doesn’t seem to support this statement. Maybe they weren’t a “Hamas death squad” (I’m not sure what your point is) but if these ship’s real and only mission was to get the cargo to Gaza, they would have taken up Israel’s offer to go through Israel’s port, get inspected and transported into Gaza. The obvious mission was to cause a confrontation and break the blockade.

“All other arguments here depend on the assumption that this ship was hostile.”

The stated goal of the ship was to run a blockade. By definition, that makes the ship hostile.

You’ll get no arguments from me that Israeli tactics were poorly thought out and reasonable people would conclude the mission would end badly. But, you won’t get an agreement that Israel doesn’t have the right to inspect all cargo going into an avowed enemy of Israel, territory that not long ago was policed (occupied) by Israel, and upon Israel leaving, immediately and almost continuously attacked Israel by firing un-aimed rockets into civilian populated areas of Israel. The population of Gaza then elected a terrorist organization as the government – an organization that has as a main tenant to destroy Israel, doesn’t recognize Israel and considers Israel a Palestinian homeland, even though most Palestinians were born elsewhere, both before and after Israel became a state. And this, even though Israel didn’t evict the Palestinians that resided there when it became a state, but the ones that left, left voluntarily.
UltimaRatioReg

Good thing there’s no anti-Israel media slant.

From Helen Thomas:

http://www.breitbart.tv/helen-thomas-tells-jews-get-the-hell-out-of-palestine-and-go-back-to-germany-poland
Rick Wilmes

Hamas and it’s supporters, we mock you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg&feature=youtube_gdata
Lee Wetherhorn

Lou
To the best of my knowledge the only helo sent to the liberty was the Super Frelon with the US Naval Attache. The Israelis were in the middle of a hot war and hardly had time and resources to waste on the Liberty. The air attacks were made by an air defense CAP and a ground attack duo, both diverted to the Liberty when she was still thought to be hostile.
The very idea that a helicopter would approach a burning ship with masts booms and antennas sticking out all over where you can’t see them and might accidentally touch one with your rotor is hard for me to accept. I always thought it was scary enough to be transferred by helo to a non-aviation ship in good, clear weather.
The torpedo boat attack was not an operation planned at the top level. It was an interception of an unidentified, and assumed, hostile, ship. The torpedo boats tried challenging by flashing light (“AA” – “what ship”). The only response they think they saw was “AA” in return. That was the same exchange they had in 1956 with the Ibrahim Al-Awal off Haifa, a fact not lost on the Israeli officers on the scene.
The torpedo boats only opened fire and launched torpedoes AFTER some idiot on the Liberty shot at them with an 0.50 MG. This is in the record of the USN Court of inquiry, only one of 5 bodies that have filed reports on what happened. The decision to launch torpedoes was made by the on scene commander after requesting, and receiving permission. Gunfire, as I recall, was returned immediately.
You may not have a vendetta against them, but a lot of other people who still ask for yet another inquiry certainly seem to have one. Just check the tone and content of some of the material on the sites you mentioned (not to mention the misleading translations of the Hebrew language radio transmissions from the pilots.)
The torpedoes used by the Israelis were WWII former German 17.7″ relics. Apparently no one was sure they would even function correctly. Even so, they only made one hit.
I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment regarding Captain McGonagle. The crew of the Liberty, like that of the Cole, did a terrific job of handling damage to their ship.

Regarding the Gaza Aid Flotilla, I’ve heard some more this weekend about what happened. Rumors about results from interrogation of people on board by the Israelis before deporting them included the following items:
1) The Mavi Marmari had 3 types of people on board. Crew, real humanitarian aid supporters, and combatant ‘hit squads’.
2) the real aid supporters were all ordered below decks when the Israelis approached.
3) The ‘Hit Squads” then took out previously prepared weapons, mostly iron bars, chains, and knives. They were also equipped with stun grenades, gas masks, and small radios for inter-squad communications. There were 3 squads of 10 or more men, each assigned to a different section of the upper deck.
4) None of the ‘hit squad’ members carried identification. Some are reported to have large sums of cash, up to $10000 US each.
5) At least one of them is reported to have expressed regret that he was not killed. It would have qualified him for Shahid (Martyr) status. He said he had already failed once before and hoped to succeed the next time.
6) An officer from the Turkish Crew is reported to have said he saw ‘hit squad’ members throwing hand guns over the side after the Israelis started shooting back.
7) Israeli examination of the bodies that were returned before they were transferred does not match reports of autopsies broadcast from other sources indicating victims were shot from behind.
I cannot vouch for the complete accuracy of all these, but from past experience I rate both the source, and content, as highly believable.
Andre From Sacto

Lee, all the evidence you produced is from the IDF. Where is the video evidence from the ship’s passengers? It is being held by the IDF to perpetuate in the cover-up. IF there were ‘bad actors’ among the ship’s crew then undoubtedly this video would show it. This is how you lose an information war. The IDF has done a fantastic job of pushing its version of the story out with its well-played video release. But the rest of the world knows there is other video out there and that it is being suppressed. There is NO legal precedence for confiscating video media in international waters. This is how the IDF will win this information battle but lose the information war. A lesson that we here in the US should not ignore.
Rick Wilmes

Why is the pro-Hamas crowd and the media making such a fuss about the raid taking place in international waters?
http://www.coatneyhistory.com Lou Coatney

Lee,

A few responses:

Even if the Israeli claim that there was miscommunication and “some idiot” fired on the torpedoboats first … which may or may not be the truth … Liberty had been under concerted air attack by Israeli aircraft, and any other Israeli combatants could be assumed to be attacking.

You still can’t explain the close quarters machinegunning of the liferafts after Liberty had become defenseless, and the only explanation is that a sinking with no survivors was intended. Indeed, being so close that automatic weapons could be used makes mistaken identity a transparently false excuse.

“To the best of my knowledge the only helo sent to the liberty was the Super Frelon with the US Naval Attache. The Israelis were in the middle of a hot war and hardly had time and resources to waste on the Liberty.”

A special/black op which could bring us directly into the Mideast wars would be well worth any assets diverted from other combat, and Liberty was an easy target requiring very few assets. You might talk to Jim Ennes, to broaden your knowledge of what happened that day, if the GTR5 webpage still doesn’t convince you.

http://www.gtr5.com/summary_of_events.htm

Again, if the Israelis had been properly exposed and punished for what appears to have been an attempted false flag massacre, any similar (and infinitely worse) scheme – by the Israelis and/or whomever – most probably would have been deterred, and we would not be in the strategic MESS we are now.
Lee Wetherhorn

Lou

I’m not interested in turning this into a “Liberty” discussion. As you might have surmised, I think that Mr Ennes and most of the GTR5 site are interested in a vendetta. I also think that approach, with it’s attendant distortions, does little to credit the victims, Those men deserve our admiration and honor.
I said distortions in the previous paragraph because your comment on the Liberty opening fire first was that it may or may not be true. The testimony at the Navy Court of Inquiry saying it was true came from Captain Mcgonagle, who had to make the man stop shooting.
The media wars on the aid flotilla are still going on. The latest I’ve seen is some highly questionable interview in the Turkish press of a former US Marine named O’keefe. I’ve been told he also holds a Palestinian Passport, issued by Hamas, and he was on board in order to get to Gaza where he intended to use his military experience train Hamas troops. My own knowledge of the law regarding contraband doesn’t cover cases of transporting self-styled freedom fighters, but it does make me think that statements that nothing was being carried that constituted military aid might be questionable.
Mustafa Akin

When the Vatican opposed the Communist Regimes in 1940s, Stalin asked this question ‘how many guns does the Vatican hold?’. Stalin undermined the difference between soft power and hard power. Israel also forgot the soft power (media, humanitarian action, NGO) as Lou noted. However, the communism was not destroyed by the gun machine but by the constant propoganda regarding the life standard discrepancy between east and west.

Herding Cats Off the Israeli Coast

Recent Posts

Pages

Guest Bloggers

Links

Recent Comments

Categories

Archives

Subscribe

video title