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	<title>Comments on: The New PLAN: Aggressor Or Defender?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496</link>
	<description>The Naval Institute’s taken its independent forum to a new level - with you in the middle of it.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:38:19 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Byron</title>
		<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496&#038;cpage=1#comment-128992</link>
		<dc:creator>Byron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496#comment-128992</guid>
		<description>Atty, I&#039;ve been talking about it for the past 10 years. Everyone seems to think I&#039;m crazy. Events will decide who&#039;s right. But if Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, and Australia are smart, they&#039;ll keep a weather eye out to the west.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atty, I&#8217;ve been talking about it for the past 10 years. Everyone seems to think I&#8217;m crazy. Events will decide who&#8217;s right. But if Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, and Australia are smart, they&#8217;ll keep a weather eye out to the west.</p>
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		<title>By: UltimaRatioReg</title>
		<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496&#038;cpage=1#comment-128933</link>
		<dc:creator>UltimaRatioReg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496#comment-128933</guid>
		<description>Atty,

Plenty are talking about India&#039;s expansion, but it seems that we (policy makers) are unclear on that expansion&#039;s impact.  Sort of a &quot;stay tuned&quot; scenario, with China and India building navies suited for wide regional hegemony.  

URR</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atty,</p>
<p>Plenty are talking about India&#8217;s expansion, but it seems that we (policy makers) are unclear on that expansion&#8217;s impact.  Sort of a &#8220;stay tuned&#8221; scenario, with China and India building navies suited for wide regional hegemony.  </p>
<p>URR</p>
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		<title>By: Atty</title>
		<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496&#038;cpage=1#comment-128925</link>
		<dc:creator>Atty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496#comment-128925</guid>
		<description>Hey why no one is talking of India&#039;s naval expansion and its impact on US-China strategic relationship?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey why no one is talking of India&#8217;s naval expansion and its impact on US-China strategic relationship?</p>
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		<title>By: Atty</title>
		<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496&#038;cpage=1#comment-128924</link>
		<dc:creator>Atty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496#comment-128924</guid>
		<description>Hey whay no one is talking of India&#039;s naval expansion and its impact on US-China strategic relationship?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey whay no one is talking of India&#8217;s naval expansion and its impact on US-China strategic relationship?</p>
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		<title>By: capospin</title>
		<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496&#038;cpage=1#comment-120256</link>
		<dc:creator>capospin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496#comment-120256</guid>
		<description>Joseph, China is not a superpower. It has not been a great world power for the last 400 years. China to  today will not be the China 20 years from now. The economy of the PRC will not surpasses the US any time soon. It will take a big dive soon, look at the world econ news. If  the US and the west stop or slow the buying what will the PRC do with the supply?? Also the good times, such as they are, are only felt in the east cost regions of China. The  hart land is still big time poor. The elite in the CCP are  going to become  more in conflict with leaders in the west China. How to spend state money, taxes, land reform and support and  make better the living conditions  of West China vs. the rich east. China could crack or fragment on these lines as she did in 1900 - 1950. A new Mao, or Sun Yet Sen will come up at some point to take on the elite and old leaders of the CCP. The State will use Taiwan or &quot;territorial integrity&quot; to gut support from the people for the PRC State (nationalism) to stay in power. A conflict with the US will come about through these events. Taiwan is not vital to the security of China. The PRC naval build up is real. It is to  project power into the  seas of east asia and to bring the US Pacific fleet into a close fight with the PLA Navy if need be. Thus , China&#039;s &quot;Risk&quot; fleet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph, China is not a superpower. It has not been a great world power for the last 400 years. China to  today will not be the China 20 years from now. The economy of the PRC will not surpasses the US any time soon. It will take a big dive soon, look at the world econ news. If  the US and the west stop or slow the buying what will the PRC do with the supply?? Also the good times, such as they are, are only felt in the east cost regions of China. The  hart land is still big time poor. The elite in the CCP are  going to become  more in conflict with leaders in the west China. How to spend state money, taxes, land reform and support and  make better the living conditions  of West China vs. the rich east. China could crack or fragment on these lines as she did in 1900 &#8211; 1950. A new Mao, or Sun Yet Sen will come up at some point to take on the elite and old leaders of the CCP. The State will use Taiwan or &#8220;territorial integrity&#8221; to gut support from the people for the PRC State (nationalism) to stay in power. A conflict with the US will come about through these events. Taiwan is not vital to the security of China. The PRC naval build up is real. It is to  project power into the  seas of east asia and to bring the US Pacific fleet into a close fight with the PLA Navy if need be. Thus , China&#8217;s &#8220;Risk&#8221; fleet.</p>
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		<title>By: RickWilmes</title>
		<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496&#038;cpage=1#comment-120229</link>
		<dc:creator>RickWilmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496#comment-120229</guid>
		<description>Joseph,

China is compared with the bad guys because of their statist nature.  All the countries you mentioned do not have a system of government that protects individual rights and property.  Taiwan does have such a system and that is why it is an issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph,</p>
<p>China is compared with the bad guys because of their statist nature.  All the countries you mentioned do not have a system of government that protects individual rights and property.  Taiwan does have such a system and that is why it is an issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Tan</title>
		<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496&#038;cpage=1#comment-120162</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496#comment-120162</guid>
		<description>Many compare China with Prussia (Germany), Japan or the lots of other bad guys. They forget that China had been a world superpower since ancient times and even as late as 1850 when China economy (GNP) consists of 1/3 (a third) of the world&#039;s GNP, bigger than the heydays of America (in the 1950&#039;s and 60&#039;s). Decades later from 1850, China were defeated by English navy, 10 combined foreign army sacked Beijing and even newly rise Japan defeated China. Why?
 
Because she  thought reasons should get better of one than making wars (she was wrong!) and she was too thrift to spend on her  military armament then. She must not make this mistake again.

Experts now predict that in another 18 years China economy shall  surpasses US. Yet at this time China does not even possesses a single aircraft carrier to safeguard her trade or territory.

One (especially US) should not too worried in regards to Chinese ASBM. China after all is a responsible Big 5. She had a lot of head-ache - how to raise the balance millions out of poverty, how to allocate more fund to the poorer area to overcome the rich-poor gap, the desertification, lack of drinking water for millions(!), the shortage of food, oil, export, jobs, natural disaster and of course Taiwan!

She meant well when she use the DF-31 as ASBM with 1, 800 to 2, 500 km rather than a ICBM with 12 000km. She knows that if she strikes an American carrier, that means full war, which is the last in her mind. America is her largest debtor, she will not kill the goose that laid the golden egg. However the same cannot be said if the issue in regards to Taiwan, because she is left with no choice for she had to safeguard her &quot;territorial integrity&quot;. 

Basically her ASBM is a polite reminder to others that &quot;don&#039;t mess with me in regard to Taiwan&quot;. That was all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many compare China with Prussia (Germany), Japan or the lots of other bad guys. They forget that China had been a world superpower since ancient times and even as late as 1850 when China economy (GNP) consists of 1/3 (a third) of the world&#8217;s GNP, bigger than the heydays of America (in the 1950&#8217;s and 60&#8217;s). Decades later from 1850, China were defeated by English navy, 10 combined foreign army sacked Beijing and even newly rise Japan defeated China. Why?</p>
<p>Because she  thought reasons should get better of one than making wars (she was wrong!) and she was too thrift to spend on her  military armament then. She must not make this mistake again.</p>
<p>Experts now predict that in another 18 years China economy shall  surpasses US. Yet at this time China does not even possesses a single aircraft carrier to safeguard her trade or territory.</p>
<p>One (especially US) should not too worried in regards to Chinese ASBM. China after all is a responsible Big 5. She had a lot of head-ache &#8211; how to raise the balance millions out of poverty, how to allocate more fund to the poorer area to overcome the rich-poor gap, the desertification, lack of drinking water for millions(!), the shortage of food, oil, export, jobs, natural disaster and of course Taiwan!</p>
<p>She meant well when she use the DF-31 as ASBM with 1, 800 to 2, 500 km rather than a ICBM with 12 000km. She knows that if she strikes an American carrier, that means full war, which is the last in her mind. America is her largest debtor, she will not kill the goose that laid the golden egg. However the same cannot be said if the issue in regards to Taiwan, because she is left with no choice for she had to safeguard her &#8220;territorial integrity&#8221;. </p>
<p>Basically her ASBM is a polite reminder to others that &#8220;don&#8217;t mess with me in regard to Taiwan&#8221;. That was all.</p>
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		<title>By: capospin</title>
		<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496&#038;cpage=1#comment-120104</link>
		<dc:creator>capospin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496#comment-120104</guid>
		<description>Ultima, YOU ARE RIGHT, It is Grand Admiral Tirpitz and his RISK fleet.  The Kaiser wished to build a navy greater then the RN or one that could take it on BB/CB to BB/CB. Admiral Tirpitz know that Germany did not have the money or time to get into a naval arms rase the the Brits and still build the Imperial Army into the two front war fighting force. So the concept of the &quot;Risk Fleet&quot; 

Also I am with you Ultima on our linking Chinas naval  objectives with Japans from pre WWII. I follow your line of thought on this and there are a number of parallels with Japans  naval history. For one the same basic part of the ocean and Asia land mass to fight over for the same stuff. The one point I would make on this is to understand Japan, Like the USA, is a naval power for national strategic objectives. The USA (and Japan) or sea powers so  we can fulfill our national security goals. That is our Grand Strategy require us to be a sea power. Although China has a naval tradition from classical history, the  current PRC has no real security goals or grand strategy that require or compel her to take to the sea and take on all comers. This is some thing the CCP feels or thinks brings  power or leverage to the State PRC. 

One does not know how much longer the CCP can hold on to the State (PRC). China is bigger and older then the CCP. As the people and elite of the cost get rich in the world trade the hart land and back country or still poor. Big time poor. How much  longer until a new Mao stands up to lead a revolution back to the rich cost? The event of 1989-1991 in Tiananmen Square are still close to many in China. A push to the south (like Japan in 41) or a move to take Taiwan by force would be  motivated by these type of internal political forces. What China does with its Naval build up should be seen with these factors in mind. 

The real power backing up the CCP holding the state together is  the Army (PLA). The PLA navy will be used to defend the east flank, project power to bolster the CCP and keep  off balance the US Pacific Fleet. The PLA Navy wins not with sea power but by taking the US Navy off its game. The PRC could lose their battle fleet in combat and still win a strategic victory if they inflicted major damage with much blood on the US Pacific fleet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ultima, YOU ARE RIGHT, It is Grand Admiral Tirpitz and his RISK fleet.  The Kaiser wished to build a navy greater then the RN or one that could take it on BB/CB to BB/CB. Admiral Tirpitz know that Germany did not have the money or time to get into a naval arms rase the the Brits and still build the Imperial Army into the two front war fighting force. So the concept of the &#8220;Risk Fleet&#8221; </p>
<p>Also I am with you Ultima on our linking Chinas naval  objectives with Japans from pre WWII. I follow your line of thought on this and there are a number of parallels with Japans  naval history. For one the same basic part of the ocean and Asia land mass to fight over for the same stuff. The one point I would make on this is to understand Japan, Like the USA, is a naval power for national strategic objectives. The USA (and Japan) or sea powers so  we can fulfill our national security goals. That is our Grand Strategy require us to be a sea power. Although China has a naval tradition from classical history, the  current PRC has no real security goals or grand strategy that require or compel her to take to the sea and take on all comers. This is some thing the CCP feels or thinks brings  power or leverage to the State PRC. </p>
<p>One does not know how much longer the CCP can hold on to the State (PRC). China is bigger and older then the CCP. As the people and elite of the cost get rich in the world trade the hart land and back country or still poor. Big time poor. How much  longer until a new Mao stands up to lead a revolution back to the rich cost? The event of 1989-1991 in Tiananmen Square are still close to many in China. A push to the south (like Japan in 41) or a move to take Taiwan by force would be  motivated by these type of internal political forces. What China does with its Naval build up should be seen with these factors in mind. </p>
<p>The real power backing up the CCP holding the state together is  the Army (PLA). The PLA navy will be used to defend the east flank, project power to bolster the CCP and keep  off balance the US Pacific Fleet. The PLA Navy wins not with sea power but by taking the US Navy off its game. The PRC could lose their battle fleet in combat and still win a strategic victory if they inflicted major damage with much blood on the US Pacific fleet.</p>
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		<title>By: UltimaRatioReg</title>
		<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496&#038;cpage=1#comment-120006</link>
		<dc:creator>UltimaRatioReg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 03:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496#comment-120006</guid>
		<description>Capo,

I think you may have mixed up von Scharnhorst (the Prussian General of Napoleonic Wars) with von Tirpitz, the Kaiser&#039;s Grand Admiral and architect of the High Seas Fleet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Capo,</p>
<p>I think you may have mixed up von Scharnhorst (the Prussian General of Napoleonic Wars) with von Tirpitz, the Kaiser&#8217;s Grand Admiral and architect of the High Seas Fleet.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Kilmer</title>
		<link>http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496&#038;cpage=1#comment-119953</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Kilmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.usni.org/?p=3496#comment-119953</guid>
		<description>UltimaRatioReg, 

If I understand you and the analysis correctly, then I think you have brought up a key point in your first point, economics and hence freedom.  If the Chinese government makes moves toward a freer society then the expansion of their navy could actually be a positive sign of a &quot;defender.&quot;  But, at this time it still seems that they are sending mixed signals, such as having Google design an internet system that allows the government to watch over their citizens.  In a free society a government would have no need to check up on every citizen.  So, if I had to come to a conclusion right now on which way I thought the Chinese government was moving, I would say &quot;aggressor.&quot;

And with that said, I sure wish that the CIA still had the funding and the man power that they did have before Carter became president and started appointing people and implementing his ideas over 30 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UltimaRatioReg, </p>
<p>If I understand you and the analysis correctly, then I think you have brought up a key point in your first point, economics and hence freedom.  If the Chinese government makes moves toward a freer society then the expansion of their navy could actually be a positive sign of a &#8220;defender.&#8221;  But, at this time it still seems that they are sending mixed signals, such as having Google design an internet system that allows the government to watch over their citizens.  In a free society a government would have no need to check up on every citizen.  So, if I had to come to a conclusion right now on which way I thought the Chinese government was moving, I would say &#8220;aggressor.&#8221;</p>
<p>And with that said, I sure wish that the CIA still had the funding and the man power that they did have before Carter became president and started appointing people and implementing his ideas over 30 years ago.</p>
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