On 2 November 2017, the 224 officers that were eligible for the U.S. Navy FY19 Aviation Major Command Screen Board (AMCSB) learned their fate when the results were announced. This annual release is watched closely by naval aviation stakeholders who look at the list of names and speculate about the priorities of senior leadership and direction of the community as well as, more innocuously, to see if their friends or colleagues have been picked up. The Navy has made plenty of controversial administrative and statutory selections before, however, groundbreaking picks are rare. The selection of Commander Matthew “Hondo” Barr for Major Command at Sea (CVW)—the first future rotary wing CAG—was one of those.
The diversification of carrier air wing commanders is not a new topic. In their Proceedings article, “On Becoming CAG,” Lieutenants Roger Misso, Victor Allen, and Victoria Marum clearly laid out the damning statistical “playing field” that non-VFA aviators have faced at the AMCSB. It is impossible to know the exact effect, if any, that this dialogue had on senior Navy leadership, but in the FY19 convening order, the CAG eligibility criteria states, “Platform diversity is desired for CVW selection and all qualified 1310/1320 eligibles regardless of T[ype]/M[odel]/S[eries] should be considered equally.” This is the third time this text has appeared (the FY17 AMCSB was the first) and, if it continues to appear in convening orders, could mark a shift toward more diverse community selections.
For the rotary wing community, Commander Barr’s selection as CAG has been a long time coming. Naval helicopters were first used in the latter stages of World War II and were integrated into carrier air wings (CVW) prior to the Vietnam War. In the second half of the 20th century, H-3s and SH-2s evolved into mixed platform HS squadrons flying HH-60H and SH-60F Seahawks and, in the early 2000s, MH-60R and MH-60S birds flew from the carriers as HSM and HSC squadrons. HSM-71, as part of CVW-9 on the USS John C. Stennis (CNV-74), made the community’s first CVW deployment in 2009 and elevated the discussion of a rotary wing CAG from virtually impossible to “maybe someday”. CDR Barr has not spent his entire flying career in Carrier Air Wings. His junior officer and department tours were completed with HSL-48 and HSL-42, respectively, deploying on various CRUDES (cruiser-destroyer) ships. He was a fleet replacement squadron instructor pilot with HSL-40 and a mini-boss on board the USS Boxer (LHD-4). Non-flying tours included a joint tour at U.S. Strategic Command and at the Naval War College. Prior to his first carrier air wing assignment with CVW-2 as the executive officer (XO) and commanding officer of HSM-78, he was the XO of HSM-41, the west coast HSM FRS. The AMCSB sated him to command CVW-1. We sat down with Hondo to get his perspective on his upcoming assignment. The interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
Q: Captain Sara “Clutch” Joyner, the first female CAG, stated that she “looks forward to when there are no more ‘firsts’… that’s when the bar is truly leveled”. Do you think there are similarities in your situation?
Commander Matt Barr: What I like to do is take this situation and make it so that I’m not the first helo CAG. I’m just going to be a DCAG and then a CAG . . . I didn’t grow up in the Air Wing. I got to participate in the Air Wing and learn it. I continue to learn about the Air Wing. But I’m an Air Wing guy, I’m not a ‘Helo CAG’ . . . just like Clutch said, I don’t want there to be any more firsts. This is a big deal, but this also shouldn’t be a big deal. Maybe an interview like this will let people know that we can stop making a big deal out of these things . . . I had great opportunities. I had great leadership. I had great subordinates the entire career and great opportunity and fantastic timing. It’s really not about me. It’s about a lot of other people doing a lot of different things and I just happen to have my name behind it.
Q: During your time as a squadron skipper, your CAG obviously had faith in your ability to be an Air Wing Commander, otherwise you wouldn’t have been selected. How much mentorship did he give you to prepare for this job while you were the Skipper?
MB: . . . CAG [Max] “Pepper” [McCoy] was not a long talker. He got quickly to the point—always very direct, always very honest and I appreciate that. He allowed me to be a Commanding Officer and I appreciated that more than anything. I got screened for that job; I wanted to be a Commanding Officer and I got that opportunity to be the Commanding Officer. I never thought that the CAG was trying to run my squadron for me… If I went off-track a little bit he’d correct me and we’d get back and go on the business. Terrific mentorship. We didn’t talk about me being a CAG until later on in my tour or the possibilities of me being a CAG. But he said that he thinks I can do his job. So that was the confidence I needed and he obviously wrote that on a piece of paper. So here we sit.
Q: You had to imagine the possibility of being selected for CAG prior to that discussion.
MB: Growing up as an HSL guy, of course I never thought of that—it wasn’t a possibility at all. In fact, being in an Air Wing squadron was never a possibility in my mind. The helo master plan surprised me how fast I got into it, or that I had the opportunity to get into it, to be honest.
Being a Romeo squadron on an Air Wing was something I didn’t think I was going to do, much less come out of there and be selected for CAG. That’s a dream I didn’t have until later on in my tour. We had those discussions about: Can a helo guy be a CAG? What does it take? Is it ever going to happen? Who’s it going to be? We had discussions about what kind of person that would be—thinking in the future. But at some point, you realize that you’re going to be considered in the CAG tank and that’s exciting to even be considered.
Q: Why do you think platform diversity is desirable for CAG selection?
MB: It’s important because everybody brings a different level of experience and knowledge to the fight. The primary mission of an air wing is strike, something I am not particularly versed in yet, but I bring a lot of other experience to an air wing, to a strike group, to other warfare commanders about maritime operations—either surface or subsurface, and even to an electronic warfare perspective. That is why this is important. That’s why the diversity language is in the convening order, I believe. We’ll never get away from having the need for great strike knowledge and experience in the air wing, but you can also bring in other things at the same time so they complement each other…That’s where the strength is going to be—the integration across warfare commanders in a strike group, because at the end of the day it’s all about strike group success and winning warfare. It’s about helping us as a United States Navy win at sea. I’m never going to have the breadth of experiences a traditional VFA officer would have, but I can learn. Many of us have proven that we can learn how to do other things. I don’t have it now, but I have a long road ahead of me to learn this. I’ll be DCAG for 18 months and I’ll have a CAG that will hopefully help me get to that spot. Then, when I take over as CAG I’m going to have a DCAG that will also have that experience. I don’t plan to do this alone, I plan to do this as a team. I went through my command tour as an XO and CO thinking that was a team also, it wasn’t a me, myself, and I thing . . . The CAG staff will be a great resource and I’ll be leaning heavily on my skippers. I may not be able to be the most experienced strike warfare guy, but I’ll have a lot of knowledge that I’ll gain the next year or so, and I’ll bring a lot of other things to the fight.
Q: Do you think there should be a platform quota for CAG selection?
MB: I can’t say I support a percentage or making hard lines. I think we need to continue to promote, advance and screen the most qualified people we can and the ones that we think have the best chance of success… I wouldn’t say that forcing diversity is going to help, I think people need to work hard and do the best they can for whatever organization they’re working at and let the chips fall where they may. It’s never about you, and if you think it’s about you, I think you’re probably in the wrong business. I don’t do this for myself, I do this for the job, for the people who work underneath me and trying to make the teams successful. My success is really everybody’s success and that’s the way I do it.
Q: Any closing thoughts?
MB: I hope that everybody in Naval aviation can celebrate this with me and then move past it and stop thinking about it. Let’s move on to actually winning at sea as opposed to talking about things like this… I know that there are people that are trying to find my flaws to figure out I’m not perfect. I’ll tell everybody right now—I’m not perfect and you could probably find flaws, but that’s okay. I’ll make mistakes, I’ll learn from those mistakes and I’m going to move on, but I won’t let those mistakes hurt anybody and I’m not going to let those mistakes lose that war at sea. If people don’t think I’m qualified or the right person for the job, I hope that they don’t vote against whatever air wing I’m in and whatever strike group I’m in—don’t wish me to fail because that means that you’re wishing a lot of other people to fail.
The discussion about the possible similarities between the experiences of the first female CAG and the first rotary wing CAG was very interesting, so we also sat down with then-Captain Sarah “Clutch” Joyner to get her perspectives on Commander Barr’s selection.
Q: You were a member on the FY19 last Aviation Major Command Screen Board. Can you speak generally about the importance of diversity in terms of selecting CAGs?
Captain Sarah Joyner: I think it goes beyond diversity—it goes to the best and fully qualified. The recommendations and the way the board behaves is based on sustained performance and recognition that somebody is best and fully qualified to fill the role. That’s standard for any selection board. I wouldn’t have to deviate at all from where boards go or how they think about selecting our aviation leaders in the future. The board members are from all different communities and are just looking to identify those people that are recognized superior performers, that have the potential to lead at a different level.
Q: Can you speak about the pressure you felt as the first female CAG?
SJ: I think any CAG is going to feel like a lot of people are paying attention to them—when you’re trying to function at that level and you realize that you have eight squadrons looking to you for leadership, I don’t think it matters whether you are the first female CAG, the first helo CAG or just a CAG. You are the example of what everybody strives for, so you want to be that CAG that everybody remembers as being outstanding and having true leadership but you also have that function that you have to take that airborne, and you have to be an airborne leader as well. In that role as CAG you want to lead from the front, but you also have to lead on the deck plate. You’ve got to lead every sailor of your organization, and that’s the challenge. Everybody is watching no matter what. Whether you’re a first or whether you’re just CAG, they’re going to watch.
Q: Do you think Commander Barr will be at a major disadvantage as a rotary wing pilot?
SJ: I think when you look at the warfare areas, if you asked me to be the best mine countermeasures or to hunt a submarine, if you wanted me to be an airborne sensor over the horizon doing passive surveillance and reconnaissance, I think we have to rely on certain aspects of the job to be done by other people. It’s goodness to have a DCAG be paired with a CAG that complements their capabilities… I think that pairing is very important… I would say that the key is to learn everything about his warfare areas… As CAG, I had to go learn the helicopter mission and my HSM brethren and sisters were very good about trying to teach me about what they did so I could understand them better and lead them in that capacity.
Q: Is there any advice you’d offer Commander Barr on being the first rotary wing CAG?
SJ: I think that to remember that it’s not about you, that’s a big thing. To allow the leadership skills and the things that have made you what you are today and why you were selected, that those come through loud and clear . . . He was selected because he was fully qualified, he was extremely capable and his CAG had confidence that he could fulfill that role. All those things that got him selected are the same things that he just needs to keep growing. I think that thirst for finding those things that he doesn’t know enough about right now is going to serve him well going in because trying to find out as much as you can about all the different warfare specialties is what CAG is about. You’re leading eight squadrons, not four, so you’ve got to know your full portfolio.
I wish P-DCAG Barr the best of luck and to enjoy every moment. Leading an air wing is an amazing experience. You have that unique capability to make a difference in each person’s lives. I’m certainly excited to watch how he does.
